Lessons from Joe Rogan’s Podcast: The Power of Human Curiosity
photography of Joe Rogan: x.com
Joe Rogan is the creator and host of the world's most popular podcast. He went from humble releasing the first episode on December 24, 2009, to being exclusive to Spotify due to licensing deal worth an estimated $100 million.
In addition, the host of “The Joe Rogan Experience” is much more than a podcaster. He is also a stand-up comedian, an actor, UFC commentator, and former TV host.
We can notice that he is a successful figure not only in the one, specialized area but in many different fields. So what's the secret of such success? In my opinion, the cause lies in his natural curiosity that he decided to follow and it leads him to fulfill his potential in such various areas.
And our anchor point in the further explorations of Joe Rogan’s ability to follow his curiosity is one of his most popular quotes:
“Live your life like there is a documentary crew, following you around. And you are analyzing your own being. Do what you want to do so your kids one day would look back at it and see that documentary. And look on it with pride like wow. You got to think that you are the hero of your own movie”
So how did the curiosity lead him to a place where he became more powerful than the mainstream media? Here are my thoughts.
1. Deepen your specific knowledge
One of my favorite episodes from Joe Rogan’s podcast is #1309 with Naval Ravikant, also known as “Angel Philosopher”. Two hours full of insightful sentences, thoughtful words, helpful advice, and mutual respect.
The Angel Philosopher is well-known for developing three timeless principles of wealth creation. These rules are applied by the host of “The Joe Rogan Experience”, and Naval described it in a very insightful way.
According to Naval, to build wealth you have to have three kinds of features:
Accountability
Leverage
Specific Knowledge
In the context of Joe’s curiosity, the last feature is the most important. Because according to Naval, building specific knowledge is only possible by inner curiosity that Rogan decided to follow.
“In today’s society, you get a reward for creative work, for creating something brand-new that society didn’t even know yet that want it. You’re leveraged, you have broadcast media going out to everybody. You have knowledge that nobody else has. Which is your knowledge is the knowledge of being Joe Rogan. I mean who else is a UFC fighter and a commentator and a podcaster and a comedian and you know interested in all these things. People can’t replace you. So we have to pay you what’s you worth. You just have a unique set of skill sets.”
It is an example of how being curious has led him to a place where he has no competition. Through his curiosity, Joe Rogan made himself unique by exploring and combining areas that nobody else did before. Now he has a skill set that makes him irreplaceable. There’s no substitution for Rogan.
This approach reminds me of Scott Adams’ concept (who was also a guest on Rogan’s podcast) about building uniqueness and value through a skillset. According to Adams, it is better to be above average in three areas than in 1% of the best in one.
It also applies to how Rogan built his value on the market. Rogan's curiosity led to the combination of several skills, which together create a valuable and unique set that gives him an advantage.
There’s no another Joe Rogan who would be interested in such things and people, and on top of that, would be good at all these skills, from commenting UFC to doing stand-up comedy. Through skills stacking UFC commentator built a unique set of skills, and the market is willing to pay for it a lot.
He also has a strong work ethic, risk tolerance, and a good sense of humor. All things together highlight his uniqueness and worthiness.
To conclude: Build your uniqueness and value through specific knowledge by skills stacking through following your natural curiosity.
Here’s what Naval define by specific knowledge:
“So, specific knowledge is found much more by pursuing your innate talents, your genuine curiosity, and your passion. It’s not by going to school for whatever is the hottest job, it’s not for going into whatever field investors say is the hottest. Very often specific knowledge is at the edge of knowledge. It’s also stuff that’s just being figured out or is really hard to figure out.“
For a deeper understanding of talent stack and other concepts, you can also read my Lessons from Scott Adams’ book
2. Start Now. Permisionless.
“Man there’s never been a better time to be an artist because you could showcase your work.”
“The Joe Rogan Experience” #1041 with Dan Carlin is a very insightful episode and a great source of inspiration for our daily lives. They covered a lot of interesting topics but what struck a chord with me was the talk about so-called “dream life”.
Carlin and Rogan went in-depth in conversation about society traps and unfulfilling jobs. They also pointed out that the spirit of the "American dream" upon which the USA was built is much more achievable than we may think.
Here’s what Dan Carlin, the host of a podcast called “Hardcore History” said:
“Right now I tell people two things. The United States the way it’s built is built to help industry, and corporations, and companies. But that doesn’t necesarilly mean it has to be Microsoft. It can be you.“
Joe Rogan told that our approach in terms of finding jobs and ways of living should be quite opposite. He points out that we’re not encouraged enough to find deeper what we can do, and we take the “conventional” path because it’s what we take for granted.
By taking this conventional route, we push aside other ideas. Maybe more fulfilling and meaningful. We lock ourselves in the so-called society trap. And it seems to us that this "dream life" which is somehow inscribed in the spirit of the United States, is unachievable. In short, different kinds of society traps make us overthink.
But the path to this kind of life is right here, where your starting point is. It’s about taking the first step, which is much more achievable.
And Joe Rogan as he accustomed us to telling stories or drawing different kinds of analogies, in this case, he doesn't disappoint as well. He told us an almost poetic, vivid story about a person who decided to exploit his potential as a carpenter:
“Making furniture feels good. If you can do that, you could cut those corners perfectly and sand everything down nice and stained. And you sell it to someone, and it pays your bills. That is infinitely more satisfying than being stuck in some cubicle working for someone that you don’t work for. Having to have those stupid office meetings, talking to people in human resources, sitting down with your supervisor”
This story about making furniture is, as it were, a common ground on which they decide to base themselves to draw various analogies about starting point. In short, decide to follow your inner curiosity, innate abilities, and developed skills just where you’re right now. It’s not scared as it used to be. Carlin stated:
“Let’s talk about furniture builder once upon a time there are huge things in your way including needing to get a loan to just start a business. So you’re behind the eight ball right away and the pressure’s on because if it doesn’t work you’re in debt”
Carlin is the enthusiast of just taking the first step without overthinking the furthers. According to his statement in today’s world, the business is not risky as it used to be. Doing essential things is just enough:
“If you make your furniture and you don’t have to have brick and mortar store but you can put a website up, make it with squarespace or one of those other things and all of the sudden you have a business our of your house”
As we used to say: “Rome wasn't built in a day” and it's almost the essence in terms of Joe Rogan's attitude to starting. Instead of Rome, we could say Rogan Tower .or his $100 million deal with Spotify and a stadium full of people on his Comedy Specials. It is what Dan Carlin noticed.
”Whereas I mean we started these podcast there’s no brick or mortar. I mean now you’ve got just the Rogan Tower, it’s a little bit different, but once upon a time, it’s like in the back of your bedroom and you’ve got a company, and it’s got a show and people are listening.”
They’ve found the power in doing the first step, and that can be simply launching a website.
3. Study the Unknowable - invisible and underlying principles of humans.
I like to find common ground in science and spirituality, but I used to say that the first one is about studying the knowable, the other one unknowable. Both are important, and it seems that the host of the most popular podcast is aware of it. His variety of guests is the best proof of it.
“That’s crazy man, have you ever try DMT?”
Right now, this question is more of a meme than something serious, but on the other side, it's a good point to start exploring his approach to the unknowable side. This chapter could be hard to grasp since it brings up something fluid and unequivocally to define, but I think it's worthy because that shows us the full panoply of the essence of curiosity and the different sides of it.
It’s a common accusation Rogan of doing so-called “broscience”, but on the other side, it’s simple to admit that he’s a free-thinker and spirit that likes to provide.
One of these underlying principles of our spirituality is to be nice to others because, according to Joe Rogan, we as human beings are connected in a weird, almost ungraspable sense. People often accuse him of doing “broscience”, but on the other side, it’s straightforward to admit that he’s a free-thinker and a spirit that likes to provide rules that can improve our existence.
"We're connected in some strange way that we don't totally understand. And unless you are good to other people around you, unless you're kind, and friendly, and warm, and loving. You're just not... You're going to have problems everywhere you go"
The episodes of Rogan’s podcast that I enjoyed and covered the topics of Unknowables were the conversations with Joe Rogan’s close friend Duncan Trussell, who is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, and enthusiast of meditation and living in presence. What I liked in their approach was caring about using the appropriate words and insightful analogies.
As we previously said, Rogan is known for telling stories and drawing analogies. But this time Trussell drew a beautiful and vividly described analogy of flowers’ lives to our pure existence without culturally, traditionally, and ego-driven adjustments. I liked their turn towards nature and unity to seek answers to deep and difficult questions. I found it very insightful.
Duncan’s analogy about flowers existence:
“One thing I love to think about is who’s the smartest person on earth right now and what would the smartest person be like. What is perfection look like. So you go into the nature and you instantaneously get a glimpse at perfection. These things don’t care about themselves. They don’t seem to take care about themselves - the personality, the ego, the identity. Obviously, flowers are not getting their hair blown out in the morning and they’re not concerned about anything at all. They just seem to be an expression of life into the universe.“
What struck chords with me about that analogy was that the enlightenment looks like a pure reflection of nature, unimpeded by any anchor of the egoic mind. And it leads me to two points I want to highlight:
Firstly, it reminds me of Seneca’s approach to happiness as the state of truly enjoying the present regardless of any external circumstances. it’s a pure moment of living in presence without any dependencies of future, whatsoever, any fears and hopes. Just existence.
Secondly, there’s also something magical about nature, and especially flowers in that analogy. It’s a beautiful realization that they care about nothing, there’s no central nervous system, but they’re still alive. It’s a beautifully told metaphor that can improve the quality of our lives. And It triggered me to think deeply about what our lives would look like if we wouldn’t care so much.
So, that was another underlying principle of the unknowable side of human beings that the host of “The Joe Rogan Experience” with his guest decided to explore. Maybe they didn’t care about the scientific side of their statements, however, they wanted to talk about a leading meaningful life and what enlightenment would be like. Even if it’s not appropriate from the scientific side, it also covers important matters of human lives.
4. Avoid Soul-Killing Traps
“One of the reasons why people have this deep-seated anger and resentment is there’s a bunch of people out there that have this life that is deeply unsatisfying. So many people are working all day long, doing something that is deeply unsatisfying and almost painful. Soul-killing.“
Joe Rogan made himself known to us as an individualist who creates his own paths without following others’ footprints. This approach accompanied him from an early age, and it led him to start his career as a struggling stand-up comedian in his twenties, but even earlier he had shown a different attitude.
“I got lucky when I was 21 and I found stand-up and so from then I’d kind of like locked into this thing, where I’m just gonna do what I like. Everybody was giving me advice to do this and do that and it never seems to be what I want to do.“
He was curious and motivated enough to search for answers for himself without permission from top-down institutions that he was even against. Institutions such as schools, jobs, especially corporations, and in general the whole system we live in, which he labeled as "soul-killing". He couldn’t find a lot of value in them.
“School wasn’t for me“ stated Rogan, referring to limitations, boxes, and labels this institution was trying to put on him, not letting his wings fully spread. And this approach to being independent is visible to these days. He’s trying to search for answers on his own, sometimes being on the edge of so-called “social norms”.
In conversation with Henry Rollings, Rogan stated that he couldn’t exist in a normal job:
“It was like radioactive. I was taking construction jobs and was like being poisoned. It was literally I was getting radiation. I think that there are a lot of people out there like that for some awful reason they never find whatever it is that can break them free. And I got lucky, I found stand-up comedy.“
These soul-killing traps are a universal topic, not only about the above-mentioned institutions, but also about relationships, friendships, and people. So, in general, Rogan's advice is widely applied in various areas of our lives and can be condensed to the general one: cultivate the state of avoiding negativity.
“This is a thing that I’ve been cultivating for a long time avoided things that made me unhappy and figuring what those things are and being very rigid about eliminating them from my life. And one of the big ones is eliminating interactions with people that are negative. That is gigantic.“
I’ve found that I way staying in those soul-killing traps, having this constant grief or deep-seated anger because I was simply thinking that this state is permanent. And people often think that the future can’t bring anything brighter, so in short, there’s no hope.
And here again, Duncan Trussell, with whom Rogan had many insightful and long conversations, comes with a meaningful analogy of “gravitational field” as being permanently in these very soul-killing traps:
“I think the main thing you teach is that you don’t have to be trapped in the gravitational field of whatever the particular life is that you happen to. Find yourself and if you find yourself in life that you don’t like, if you find yourself in a situation that is not bringing you happiness then there are ways that you can escape that gravitational field, takes work, takes momentum, and time”
And we have to admit that people improve themselves, building new things, and bringing the changes, when they believe in it and see sense in it. And for seeing that deep sense and belief in something, there’s must be even bigger hope.
“Managing the community and tribe that you’re in, making sure that you’re a good member of that tribe, that you’re doing your part. You know there’s a lot of cynicism these days about inspiration and about motivation because there’s a lot of fake […], you can go Instagram. if you just look at it with pure heart and pure mind you can get a lot of energy, and when you’re around happy and inspirational people, it makes you feel better. And you get inspired, and if you on it inspiration, your life will be more fulfilled. “
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5. It’s OK to be wrong.
Rogan’s curiosity led him to a place of such great success, where his viewership is greater even than that of mainstream media. And what is associated with such high viewership is even greater responsibility that he hasn't been prepared for, since he was only interested in leading interesting conversations on different topics.
Previously we were talking about how being curious can improve our lives and careers by the example of the host of “The Joe Rogan Experience”. But on the other side, in pursuing that curiosity, Rogan’s made a couple of bold statements that people feel offended by or were just simply wrong. Joe had to face them all.
People aren’t fully content with lately Rogan’s episodes, especially those with doctors whose opinions do not conform to the generally accepted consensus regarding mostly Covid-19. I’m no scientist, nor a doctor, so I want to leave that space alone, but what was appealing to me was the response from one of his latest Instagram videos:
“Two guests of my podcast have been accused of dangerous misinformation. I do not know if they’re right. I don’t know because I’m not a doctor or scientist. I’m just a person who sits down, talk with people, and have a conversation with them. Do I get things wrong? Absolutely, I absolutely get things wrong, but I try to correct them. Whenever I get something wrong, I try to correct it because I’m interested in telling the truth“
Many people also stood up for Joe and decided to defend him, one of them was the clinical psychiatrist Dr. Jordan Peterson, who said:“Joe is often wrong. Like the rest of us. But he admits it, learns from it, and stumbles forward.”
Rogan admitted that he's never been prepared for such success. Additionally, he assured us that he would try even harder, and he took people's remarks to his heart. Rogan told that he was wrong.“One thing that I think I could do better is have a more experts with different opinions right after I have the controversy ones. And I’d be more openly to do certainly them.“
The quote that, in my opinion, grasp the idea of being curious and the ability to improve is hidden in the last sentence, where Rogan said: “So we can maybe find a better point of view“.
“It became what is today, which is some out-of-control juggernaut that I’ve barely have control of. So, my pledge to you is I’ll do my best to try to balance out these more controversial view points with others’ people perspectives. So we can maybe find a better point of view”
And, in the end, I want to leave the quote that expresses the idea of this chapter, which is OK to be wrong, but there’s also something more that is appealing mainly because of three reasons I want to expand.
“I dont’ want just to show the contrary opinion to the narrative is. I want to show all kinds of opinions, so we can all figure out what’s going on, and not in just about covid, about everything. About health, about fitness, wellness, the state of the world. It’s a strange responsibility to have this many viewers and listeners. And it’s nothing that I’ve been prepared for. And it’s nothing that I ever anticipated. I’m gonna do my best in the future to balance things out. So if I pissed you off - I’m sorry, and if you’re enjoying the podcast - thank you very much “
Firstly, as we can see Joe, was only interested in leading the meaningful conversation. It wasn’t about the controversy or any marketing moves, simply talking with people. Secondly, he admitted that he’s only a human being who can be wrong, and it’s difficult to control such a huge podcast, which he previously labeled as a juggernaut he barely has control of. And lastly, he understood his mistakes, he would like to do a few things differently, but he will not turn back time. So he assures us that he will be constantly improving and providing meaningful conversations with interesting people. And it will get better over time.
Summary:
Specific knowledge is what makes us unique and valuable. Build it through your genuine curiosity and innate talents.
“Rogan’s Tower” wasn’t built in one day. Start now permissionless and lay the first brick.
"We're connected in some strange way that we don't totally understand” - don’t be scared of exploring unknown territory.
Cultivate the state of avoiding negativity and being aware of soul-killing traps.
In the journey of the following curiosity, you may hit the wrong places, and it’s OK to be wrong. Take your pride, have the courage to apologize, and improve.
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